Mayor Eric Adams’ plan to deploy EMT and police to hospitalize severely mentally-ill people from public transit faced protests and court challenges from the left.
I cannot help but think those in the accompanying photo (lynching, really!?) want another summer like 2020, with news commentators remarking about "mostly peaceful protests" against a backdrop of burning buildings.
Elections are around the corner. Count on the Dem/Prog machine to hype the racial hysteria to turn out the black and nutjob liberal vote. Third world politics.
BY the time we reach 2024 elections the atmospherics will be along the lines of "If you don't vote for Biden, you are literally supporting White Supremacy and lynching of blacks."
I am a frustrated relative of someone with schizophrenia. I rarely hear support for what I have seen works for such unfortunate people (including thank goodness my relative). Letting them "free" to live "as they wish" on the streets is a terrible idea. Locking them up for extended times is also a terrible idea (short term is fine and sometimes necessary). Such people need a dignified, supervised, regulated place to live. What works are group homes (for about 10 residents) in which each person has his/her own room (essential for calm and privacy); medications are dispensed and recorded by staff; meals, laundry, room cleaning are provided; and one staff member lives on site. Residents need to be free to come and go. There are rules but they are flexible. If someone stops taking meds for too long, "crisis" is called and the person is taken to the hospital for a day to stabilize. Some won't make it if they need illicit drugs too much, but we have seen that this kind of support is so kind and calming that most want to stay and do stay. The costs are less than the costs of what happens when nothing is done. The residents of the one I know of are all on medicaid or medicare. It is not a private luxury place. There are very few such homes. Why?
Thank you Marilyn. I'd try to set up such a home or two myself but the red tape is humungous. An existing government agency needs to do it I think and I'm not very optimistic.
Stanley, This plan actually reduces tax drains as the costs for this sort of home are less than costs for stays in intensive hospital psych units combined with costs for police, social workers and (often chaotic ) shelters who must deal with people who are unruly owing to severe psychiatric disorders (to say nothing of the safety of citizens who come into contact with unmedicated ill people). I've seen financial analyses. It makes financial sense to have more such homes. Communities are frightened of approving such homes, but they can be located well apart from most of the local citizens.
Plus, the home that I know of is amazingly calm the vast majority of the time. It's located in a nice town right next to single family homes who seem OK with it.
Neighbors are OK with the home because the residents are medicated, and usually nice and polite and in fact often speak like the wholly normal people they used to be before they became ill. Their "former selves" are still there, though they come and go a bit with delusions, which are calmed with the meds. .
Costs too much when the percentage of babies born in the hood are born to get the mother her own Section 8 apt etc etc etc. The child soon acquires PTSD as part of its DNA. The criminality weighs upon the most vulnerable. You can't house all the people born into a kind of poverty that is about more than food and shelter. And yet we try to house, feed and give child care rather than have people starving in the streets and rioting but the waves of corruption are throwing society further and further back. Capitalism requires a welfare class but the political economics, the casino capitalism, the parties-wide corruption is greater than the taxpayer can bear. If by some miracle the billionaires would pay for a chicken in every pot, do you think we'd be saved? Guess again. The concentration camps of the Third Reich had signs "Work makes one Free - so I hate to say anything similar, but people need to be able to work and see the fruit of their labor. Our middle classes and working and welfare classes are in deep trouble and it's the weakling on the subway who shouts for help, assuming help should come from the public (where'd he get that idea?) , in other words the most vulnerable, the children, the urban poor, who are most greatly wounded. Even animals are routinely tortured in factory farms in our time. We are living in a sick society within a beautiful world where the fruits and water of the earth and every living thing is for our benefit. When will society collectively repent?
That’s dd’s point. If they allowed him to get help and solved the problem there would be no need for their org. They need to perpetuate the problem to maintain power, not solve it.
They don't hold violent mentally ill people for treatment accountable for their actions, they don't have supports in place to assist him back into the community. They just allow this man to languish on the streets to the detriment of himself and others......
I'm not a shrink, but I'm pretty sure the definition of mentally ill means you are not responsible for their actions.
Perhaps you should direct your anger at the ruling class, not the people who think that mentally ill people shouldn't be executed in the streets with impunity.
You may not be a shrink but common sense would dictate that if someone is mentally ill they should receive help not be allowed to live on the streets and terrorize the law abiding public. The people who claim don’t “...think that mentally ill people shouldn't be executed in the streets with impunity.” refused to allow the state to get Neely the help he obviously needed willingly letting him suffer on the streets. If they had let the city help he would be alive today. You should ask why they didn’t want him to get the help he needed and how did they further their agenda with that action.
Incorrigibles have no place in society. All the social engineers in the world can’t fix this problem. Those who advocate treatment need to be exposed to the mayhem they perpetuate. Those who commit crimes should have to earn their way back into society, not be giving the right to harm others.
Think about this. The only time you hear about black people being murdered/killed — the only time there’s national coverage — is when the killer is white. Today in the U.S. a young black man has fifteen times the chances of dying from violence as his white counterpart. Violence takes more years of life from black men than cancer, stroke, and diabetes combined. And it’s not because of white people. But we’re not allowed to talk about this.
I would just like to point out that when you read about a black man being murdered (my understanding is that a chokehold like that will render the victim unconscious in less than 2 minutes and kill them in less than five - Neely was held in one for 15) is to complain about how hard things are for white people.
What are you even talking about? In what way am I complaining about how hard things are for white people? And watch the video. Had Neely been rendered unconscious in two minutes, he wouldn't be resisting for far longer than that, now would he?
You might want to re-read the comment that you're criticizing. It had nothing to do with "how hard things are for white people", only trying to point out that in reality black-on-black crime is much higher than white-on-black crime despite what media coverage would have us believe. And the fact that we ignore that reality does not help make the world a safer place for anyone, most especially people who are black.
FWIW, if you see my post above, I am convinced there is a distinct possibility that this guy tries to steal a guitar from me on the G train. If it wasn't him, it was someone very much like him.
Of course, I just call it crime. Most of the violence committed against black people is committed by black people. Just like most violence against white people is committed by white people.
Why doesn't the media talk about white on white crime?
What planet do you live on? The media doesn't talk about white on white crime? Really? And do you not realize you just made my point? "Most of the violence committed against black people is committed by black people." Exactly, and yet the only thing you ever hear about is when a white person commits violence against a black person.
The left shows more care and concern for black criminals than the black victims of black criminals. And it wasn't a murder.
That's quite a case of confirmation bias you have there, pally.
And yes, when a person who knows that a chokehold is likely to kill someone after a few minutes holds one for 15, that's murder. And a marine receives the kind of training that would teach you that.
I really admire your willingness to take this issue on because it's clearly aroused mobs of people for whom any kind of nuanced discussion has become impossible. Everything has to be, sorry for the pun, black or white. What bothers me is that in the video, at least one of the men who helped the marine hold Neely down seems to be a person of color, but the only one taking the heat is the White Marine. Maybe he was a racist, but right now I don't think so based on that video, and we need to know a lot more before we start calling him a murderer. All I know right now is it was a tragedy, and baying for the White guy's blood is not going to help make sure it doesn't happen again.
Wow, total FUBAR. Can't help, but think though, that I might have done the same thing as the young Marine given the circumstances. I mean, who knows how a situation like this can go? Evidently, more than one person felt like they had to act.
Is 15 minutes the legal limit? It could also be holding on too long trying to make the guy stop and totally losing sense of time. Do you think murder was his intent?
Since I can't answer your other post, I'll have to answer it here.
"So, the perp was dead for 12 minutes while the bystander hung on to him? Were you there?"
1) these are the facts as laid out in ever account I've read, including this one.
2) If I have to have been there to comment, where you there? No? Then why are you commenting?
3) take a minute and google how long it takes to kill someone with a chokehold, if you don't believe me
4) the murderer was a marine, and unless he skipped basic training, was taught close quarters combat, and would know the dangers of a chokehold. There's a reason the cops aren't supposed to use them.
First we should stop allowing activists who can only see race as the issue to stranglehold the narrative. Honestly I think we should all be ashamed here that we have allowed the homeless issue to become what it is. We can spend billions in other countries, billions creating diversity departments to root out racism in every aspect of society whether it is a problem or not but we just let thousands with mental and drug issues live in squalor and desperation on our city streets. It is heartbreaking.
Lee, I read once about a program in Rhode Island that was having great success in dealing with homelessness.
Standing in the way of progress, then waiving the bloody shirt for more alienation, distrust and division and racialism in our society. It’s almost like they want this to keep happening...
“Lynching”. Give me a break already with the race baiting. Have we considered that maybe the marine also has a “mental illness”? Perhaps PTSD from serving our country? If so, will they drop their argument? Of course not.
Lee, great reporting as usual. I wonder, though, if calling those who are trying to racialize Neely's tragic death "left" and "left-wing" clarifies or confuses the issue. The liberal/bourgeois (so-called) "left" certainly wishes to frame everything in terms of race rather than of class, but the working-class/proletarian left wouldn't dream of doing so. I understand that as far as the MSM is concerned, liberal = left (just as conservative = right), but that conflation of liberal with left has, as I'm sure you know, a long CIA-engineered history. Because the MSM doesn't make a distinction between bourgeois left and proletarian left, and you are anything but a member of the MSM, you might consider substituting "liberal" ( or even "liberal left," if necessary) for "left" or "left-wing" for the sake of clarity and to avoid reinforcing the misleading and divisive MSM narrative. Thanks again for an otherwise excellent report.
I think it's possible I had a run-in with this guy on the G train a couple years ago.
I was on the opposite side of the car, and a guy with a beard was screaming things that sounded the same.
He focused on an older white lady - older than me, maybe in her 60s. He was screaming about how he was hungry and wanted money.
Because of course we live in a society of assholes, not a single person got up to help her.
I was coming back from a music lesson, and had a brand new (to me, anyway) guitar in a soft case with me and was hesitant to get into an altercation.
No one else got up to help her, so I had to cross the whole car full of cowards and tell him to leave her alone.
He started screaming at me, which was preferable. At one point he pulled his pants down, fully exposing himself, and said he was going to rape me.
Gross.
When my stop came, I just wanted to leave, but he said he was going to stop me. I pushed past him, and as I stepped off, he grabbed my guitar.
At this point I was forced to defend myself, subdued him, and left.
I can't say for sure it was the same guy - all the pictures of him are either unclear or of him in his MJ outfit, but the broad strokes all match.
We need to find help for these people. What happened to his mother is terrible. What kind of a society are we?
It's bad that not a single person stepped up to help that old woman, and it's absolutely fucking horrible that we allow these vulnerable people to die in the streets.
"For many residents, the stilted politics around crime and public safety have become intolerable." Amen! Intolerable is exactly right. Thank you for calling out these left-wing orgs and politicians for their hypocrisy and posturing. These leftists don't care about Jordan Neely; they see him as an opportunity for rhetoric. Individuals no longer matter; it's all about fomenting racial struggle and racial tension. The NYT consistently enrages me with its propaganda, selective and biased reporting, and dishonesty. What these reporters' and politician's endgame is eludes me.
I cannot help but think those in the accompanying photo (lynching, really!?) want another summer like 2020, with news commentators remarking about "mostly peaceful protests" against a backdrop of burning buildings.
Elections are around the corner. Count on the Dem/Prog machine to hype the racial hysteria to turn out the black and nutjob liberal vote. Third world politics.
BY the time we reach 2024 elections the atmospherics will be along the lines of "If you don't vote for Biden, you are literally supporting White Supremacy and lynching of blacks."
I had a great interaction with an friend in 2016. I said I wasn't going to vote for HRC. My friend said "that's the same as voting for Trump!"
So I said, okay, I'll vote for Trump.
"Oh wait, no, that's not what I meant."
I am a frustrated relative of someone with schizophrenia. I rarely hear support for what I have seen works for such unfortunate people (including thank goodness my relative). Letting them "free" to live "as they wish" on the streets is a terrible idea. Locking them up for extended times is also a terrible idea (short term is fine and sometimes necessary). Such people need a dignified, supervised, regulated place to live. What works are group homes (for about 10 residents) in which each person has his/her own room (essential for calm and privacy); medications are dispensed and recorded by staff; meals, laundry, room cleaning are provided; and one staff member lives on site. Residents need to be free to come and go. There are rules but they are flexible. If someone stops taking meds for too long, "crisis" is called and the person is taken to the hospital for a day to stabilize. Some won't make it if they need illicit drugs too much, but we have seen that this kind of support is so kind and calming that most want to stay and do stay. The costs are less than the costs of what happens when nothing is done. The residents of the one I know of are all on medicaid or medicare. It is not a private luxury place. There are very few such homes. Why?
Thanks for the info. At least you have a plan, something that could help. Those people on the council have no plan. Few of them do any work at all
Thank you Marilyn. I'd try to set up such a home or two myself but the red tape is humungous. An existing government agency needs to do it I think and I'm not very optimistic.
Because then rich people would have to pay taxes, which would impede their ability to manipulate the Market with stock buybacks.
Stanley, This plan actually reduces tax drains as the costs for this sort of home are less than costs for stays in intensive hospital psych units combined with costs for police, social workers and (often chaotic ) shelters who must deal with people who are unruly owing to severe psychiatric disorders (to say nothing of the safety of citizens who come into contact with unmedicated ill people). I've seen financial analyses. It makes financial sense to have more such homes. Communities are frightened of approving such homes, but they can be located well apart from most of the local citizens.
Plus, the home that I know of is amazingly calm the vast majority of the time. It's located in a nice town right next to single family homes who seem OK with it.
Neighbors are OK with the home because the residents are medicated, and usually nice and polite and in fact often speak like the wholly normal people they used to be before they became ill. Their "former selves" are still there, though they come and go a bit with delusions, which are calmed with the meds. .
Sorry, did you think my comment meant I'm opposed to treating other people humanely?
Sorry if you think my position that yachts are more important than human life. My international was "bitter sarcasm".
And I agree, it would probably save money to not be barbaric, but that is kind of beside the point, isn't it?
I think the world could use more medical care and fewer yachts. I'm agreeing with you.
Costs too much when the percentage of babies born in the hood are born to get the mother her own Section 8 apt etc etc etc. The child soon acquires PTSD as part of its DNA. The criminality weighs upon the most vulnerable. You can't house all the people born into a kind of poverty that is about more than food and shelter. And yet we try to house, feed and give child care rather than have people starving in the streets and rioting but the waves of corruption are throwing society further and further back. Capitalism requires a welfare class but the political economics, the casino capitalism, the parties-wide corruption is greater than the taxpayer can bear. If by some miracle the billionaires would pay for a chicken in every pot, do you think we'd be saved? Guess again. The concentration camps of the Third Reich had signs "Work makes one Free - so I hate to say anything similar, but people need to be able to work and see the fruit of their labor. Our middle classes and working and welfare classes are in deep trouble and it's the weakling on the subway who shouts for help, assuming help should come from the public (where'd he get that idea?) , in other words the most vulnerable, the children, the urban poor, who are most greatly wounded. Even animals are routinely tortured in factory farms in our time. We are living in a sick society within a beautiful world where the fruits and water of the earth and every living thing is for our benefit. When will society collectively repent?
These people don't want to solve the problems because these people are the problem
The "problem" is in fact their revenue and voter stream....Take a look at this brief article:
https://public.substack.com/p/ben-scallan-this-whole-industry-needs
The problem is they are allowing violent people to languish on the streets with nothing.
That’s dd’s point. If they allowed him to get help and solved the problem there would be no need for their org. They need to perpetuate the problem to maintain power, not solve it.
Everyone is setup for failure
They made Neely mentally ill?
They don't hold violent mentally ill people for treatment accountable for their actions, they don't have supports in place to assist him back into the community. They just allow this man to languish on the streets to the detriment of himself and others......
I'm not a shrink, but I'm pretty sure the definition of mentally ill means you are not responsible for their actions.
Perhaps you should direct your anger at the ruling class, not the people who think that mentally ill people shouldn't be executed in the streets with impunity.
You may not be a shrink but common sense would dictate that if someone is mentally ill they should receive help not be allowed to live on the streets and terrorize the law abiding public. The people who claim don’t “...think that mentally ill people shouldn't be executed in the streets with impunity.” refused to allow the state to get Neely the help he obviously needed willingly letting him suffer on the streets. If they had let the city help he would be alive today. You should ask why they didn’t want him to get the help he needed and how did they further their agenda with that action.
Eric Adams wanted to address this issue and they fought him tooth and nail. I'm not a big supporter of his but at least he attempted to address it
You assume way too much
Incorrigibles have no place in society. All the social engineers in the world can’t fix this problem. Those who advocate treatment need to be exposed to the mayhem they perpetuate. Those who commit crimes should have to earn their way back into society, not be giving the right to harm others.
I did mental health outreach for 15 years, there are some that cannot be reached and/or helped. I'm not going to bullshit anyone
Think about this. The only time you hear about black people being murdered/killed — the only time there’s national coverage — is when the killer is white. Today in the U.S. a young black man has fifteen times the chances of dying from violence as his white counterpart. Violence takes more years of life from black men than cancer, stroke, and diabetes combined. And it’s not because of white people. But we’re not allowed to talk about this.
https://euphoricrecall.substack.com/p/jordan-neely-wasnt-murdered
I would just like to point out that when you read about a black man being murdered (my understanding is that a chokehold like that will render the victim unconscious in less than 2 minutes and kill them in less than five - Neely was held in one for 15) is to complain about how hard things are for white people.
Probably not very helpful right now.
What are you even talking about? In what way am I complaining about how hard things are for white people? And watch the video. Had Neely been rendered unconscious in two minutes, he wouldn't be resisting for far longer than that, now would he?
You might want to re-read the comment that you're criticizing. It had nothing to do with "how hard things are for white people", only trying to point out that in reality black-on-black crime is much higher than white-on-black crime despite what media coverage would have us believe. And the fact that we ignore that reality does not help make the world a safer place for anyone, most especially people who are black.
"But we’re not allowed to talk about this."
I feel very sorry for you.
FWIW, if you see my post above, I am convinced there is a distinct possibility that this guy tries to steal a guitar from me on the G train. If it wasn't him, it was someone very much like him.
People like this deserve our sympathy.
It's called taboo, Einstein. How often do you see the media cover black on black crime? They don't. Ever. Why do you think that is?
I see it every day, actually.
Of course, I just call it crime. Most of the violence committed against black people is committed by black people. Just like most violence against white people is committed by white people.
Why doesn't the media talk about white on white crime?
Because it's just crime.
What planet do you live on? The media doesn't talk about white on white crime? Really? And do you not realize you just made my point? "Most of the violence committed against black people is committed by black people." Exactly, and yet the only thing you ever hear about is when a white person commits violence against a black person.
The left shows more care and concern for black criminals than the black victims of black criminals. And it wasn't a murder.
Yeah, no, it's never covered.
https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/harlem-smoke-shop-shooting-man-arrested-after-video-shows-murder-in-manhattan/4229905/?amp=1
https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/videos/us/2023/05/04/atlanta-mass-shooting-suspect-arrested-vpx.cnn
https://www.walb.com/2023/05/04/multiple-fatalities-incidents-under-investigation-moultrie-gbi-says/
That took about 5 seconds to find.
That's quite a case of confirmation bias you have there, pally.
And yes, when a person who knows that a chokehold is likely to kill someone after a few minutes holds one for 15, that's murder. And a marine receives the kind of training that would teach you that.
I really admire your willingness to take this issue on because it's clearly aroused mobs of people for whom any kind of nuanced discussion has become impossible. Everything has to be, sorry for the pun, black or white. What bothers me is that in the video, at least one of the men who helped the marine hold Neely down seems to be a person of color, but the only one taking the heat is the White Marine. Maybe he was a racist, but right now I don't think so based on that video, and we need to know a lot more before we start calling him a murderer. All I know right now is it was a tragedy, and baying for the White guy's blood is not going to help make sure it doesn't happen again.
The loudest activist voices dont care about the less fortunate half as much as they hate you and desperately wish to elevate their own social status.
Wow, total FUBAR. Can't help, but think though, that I might have done the same thing as the young Marine given the circumstances. I mean, who knows how a situation like this can go? Evidently, more than one person felt like they had to act.
He held the chokehold for 15 minutes.
That's murder.
Is 15 minutes the legal limit? It could also be holding on too long trying to make the guy stop and totally losing sense of time. Do you think murder was his intent?
Since I can't answer your other post, I'll have to answer it here.
"So, the perp was dead for 12 minutes while the bystander hung on to him? Were you there?"
1) these are the facts as laid out in ever account I've read, including this one.
2) If I have to have been there to comment, where you there? No? Then why are you commenting?
3) take a minute and google how long it takes to kill someone with a chokehold, if you don't believe me
4) the murderer was a marine, and unless he skipped basic training, was taught close quarters combat, and would know the dangers of a chokehold. There's a reason the cops aren't supposed to use them.
I'm not the one judging the Good Samaritan. That would be you.
You seem like a nice person.
A chokehold like that will render a person unconscious in a minute or two, and kill them a couple minutes after.
Holding a person in a chokehold for five minutes is pretty much a death sentence.
He was held for 15.
So, the perp was dead for 12 minutes while the bystander hung on to him? Were you there?
First we should stop allowing activists who can only see race as the issue to stranglehold the narrative. Honestly I think we should all be ashamed here that we have allowed the homeless issue to become what it is. We can spend billions in other countries, billions creating diversity departments to root out racism in every aspect of society whether it is a problem or not but we just let thousands with mental and drug issues live in squalor and desperation on our city streets. It is heartbreaking.
Lee, I read once about a program in Rhode Island that was having great success in dealing with homelessness.
Standing in the way of progress, then waiving the bloody shirt for more alienation, distrust and division and racialism in our society. It’s almost like they want this to keep happening...
“Lynching”. Give me a break already with the race baiting. Have we considered that maybe the marine also has a “mental illness”? Perhaps PTSD from serving our country? If so, will they drop their argument? Of course not.
Lee, great reporting as usual. I wonder, though, if calling those who are trying to racialize Neely's tragic death "left" and "left-wing" clarifies or confuses the issue. The liberal/bourgeois (so-called) "left" certainly wishes to frame everything in terms of race rather than of class, but the working-class/proletarian left wouldn't dream of doing so. I understand that as far as the MSM is concerned, liberal = left (just as conservative = right), but that conflation of liberal with left has, as I'm sure you know, a long CIA-engineered history. Because the MSM doesn't make a distinction between bourgeois left and proletarian left, and you are anything but a member of the MSM, you might consider substituting "liberal" ( or even "liberal left," if necessary) for "left" or "left-wing" for the sake of clarity and to avoid reinforcing the misleading and divisive MSM narrative. Thanks again for an otherwise excellent report.
I was thinking the same thing as I read this. The framing is shitlib, not actually leftist.
I think it's possible I had a run-in with this guy on the G train a couple years ago.
I was on the opposite side of the car, and a guy with a beard was screaming things that sounded the same.
He focused on an older white lady - older than me, maybe in her 60s. He was screaming about how he was hungry and wanted money.
Because of course we live in a society of assholes, not a single person got up to help her.
I was coming back from a music lesson, and had a brand new (to me, anyway) guitar in a soft case with me and was hesitant to get into an altercation.
No one else got up to help her, so I had to cross the whole car full of cowards and tell him to leave her alone.
He started screaming at me, which was preferable. At one point he pulled his pants down, fully exposing himself, and said he was going to rape me.
Gross.
When my stop came, I just wanted to leave, but he said he was going to stop me. I pushed past him, and as I stepped off, he grabbed my guitar.
At this point I was forced to defend myself, subdued him, and left.
I can't say for sure it was the same guy - all the pictures of him are either unclear or of him in his MJ outfit, but the broad strokes all match.
We need to find help for these people. What happened to his mother is terrible. What kind of a society are we?
It's bad that not a single person stepped up to help that old woman, and it's absolutely fucking horrible that we allow these vulnerable people to die in the streets.
Wish more people could read your article. There are 2 or 20 sides to every incident and the NYT always gets it wrong.
Both things can be true: Adams’ plan could have been a disaster and rightly opposed and People are wrongly couching Nealy’s murder in racial terms.
NYC needs publicly funded housing and health/mental health services for its residents. Police have nothing to do with that.
Don't mess with Lee Fang because his reporting has teeth that cut through the noise. Pun intended.
"For many residents, the stilted politics around crime and public safety have become intolerable." Amen! Intolerable is exactly right. Thank you for calling out these left-wing orgs and politicians for their hypocrisy and posturing. These leftists don't care about Jordan Neely; they see him as an opportunity for rhetoric. Individuals no longer matter; it's all about fomenting racial struggle and racial tension. The NYT consistently enrages me with its propaganda, selective and biased reporting, and dishonesty. What these reporters' and politician's endgame is eludes me.